Montana Association of Geographic Information Professionals - Thoughts on hiring recent grads with GIS coursework

08/03/2010 11:13 AM

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Message # 395626

Anonymous

I have started this discussion forum topic to gather opinions on the experience that GIS managers have with hiring recent graduates who have taken an introductory GIS or remote sensing class.

The content of this discussion forum will be useful for two purposes. First, this information could prove useful for the MAGIP GIS Mentoring program that is currently under development. Second, next Monday I’ll be participating in a panel discussion on this topic at Montana State University (Bozeman) at a workshop titled: “Using GIS and Remote Sensing to Teach Geoscience in the 21st Century.” The participants at the workshop all teach GIS and/or remote sensing at the college/university level. The workshop panel has been seeded with this information:

“The purpose of the panel is to provide participants with an "industry" (taken very loosely!) perspective on what undergraduate students should be able to do after having had an introductory GIS or remote sensing course. What do you hope students "with GIS experience" can do if they come to work with you for a summer internship or a job after they have graduated? What do you find most frustrating that they *can't* typically do?”

Please contribute to this conversation at your earliest convenience. I look forward to sharing your thoughts and ideas with these educators.

Diane

______________________

Diane Papineau, GIS Analyst

Montana State Library (NRIS)

Last modified: 08/03/2010 11:13 AM | Anonymous

08/03/2010 12:37 PM

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Reply # 395672 on 395626

Linda Vance

I would like to see all recent graduates be able to use the main features of ArcGIS and to have worked with Spatial Analyst (as opposed to, say, GRASS). I would also like them to be familiar with the NSDI, with building and editing geodatabases, and with principles of cartography. It has been my experience that recent graduates with a year of GIS can't find spatial data, don't know how to use geodatabases unless they have been built by someone else, and really don't understand the steps in GIS analysis. They also tend to lack an ability to think critically about maps and mapping.

08/04/2010 9:20 AM

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Reply # 396291 on 395626

Michael Fashoway

In my experience, from both the teaching and the hiring/supervising perspectives, you can't expect much from someone that has taken a single introductory course in GIS. The software is too complex and the fundamental concepts of spatial data and GIS don't always fully sink in after being exposed to them once. However, if they have had multiple courses or have graduated from a GIS program, then I would agree with what Linda said.

So, what is reasonable to expect them to know after one course? I think that if they can successfully make a map of data they obtained and manipulated in some way, that's a pretty good start. They should be able to find data and add it to their project; understand how to perform some basic editing (of the features or their attributes); perform basic analysis such as selections (by attribute or location), intersections, unions, buffers; symbolize the data; then create a map that follows at least basic cartographic principles. Along with that they should understand vector vs. raster data, know about metadata, and at least understand there are different projections and coordinate systems and how they might need to deal with them.

08/04/2010 11:13 AM

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Reply # 396363 on 395626

Jon Henderson

On a less technical note, I would like recent graduates to have a broader understanding of the "life" of their data/application. Too often, we are focused on the technical details....and we forget that both data & applications are dependent on external systems (IT, Funding, Politics, etc.)....and thus, a solid plan needs to be developed to support actual needs of the customers over the long-haul. In other words, more thought needs to be given to questions like: "how is this data/application going to be used", "in the field vs. in the office", "what is your measurable return on investment", "how will these tools evolve over time", etc. In other words, I would like to see a greater understanding of the long term drivers & implications of implementing GIS data & applications. I realize these may be advanced topics for a beginner, but it's never too early to think about the Big Picture!

08/05/2010 1:22 PM

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Reply # 397258 on 395626

Jennie Stapp

Communication skills cannot be underestimated. GISers should have the ability to communicate with subject matter experts, management and others who will very likely not be GIS-savey, about what it is they do. They will very likely need to patiently communicate with subject matter experts to determine what kind of data is available and what kind of analysis can be done to help the subject matter expert resolve a problem, answer a question, improve a service, etc. And then, once complete, the work of the GISer will have to be thoroughly and competently explained in a way that is meaningful to that person.

08/06/2010 9:25 AM

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Reply # 397757 on 395626

Eric Spangenberg

I would agree with Michael on what a student coming out of an introductory GIS class would/should have. An introductory class is just that, it 'introduces' the student to the concepts of GIS - what is GIS and how is it being implemented outside of an educational world. In the world of University 101 level courses, it would serve to give a student the knowledge of whether that student wants to learn more about GIS.

That being said, some expectations I might have for that student -

What is GIS? "get it surveyed" or Geographic Information System - system being the key component. Know that it is a set of tools for looking at and analyzing geographic (spatial) information
Points, Lines, Polygons representing features in spatial context
Metadata – be able to look at it to understand data limits and uses
If ESRI – know/understand feature class vs. feature dataset vs. shapefile vs. layer file
If ESRI - PGDB vs FGDB vs Enterprise GDB and limits/strengths of each
Simple cartographic understanding – North Arrow, Legend, Title, data sources
Vector vs. Raster Data
ESRI Platform – know data view vs. layout view and reason for each
Be able to ‘talk’ GIS – explain data needs vs “looking for maps”

I should note that while I learned GIS on the ESRI platform, in my introductory classes I was made aware of other GIS options; GRASS, Microstation,...so I wouldn't necessary believe a student with one intro class would walk in knowing ESRI related file and naming conventions.

08/06/2010 1:58 PM

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Reply # 397959 on 395626

Ted Chase

I think a student with 1 semester of Intro GIS should understand GIS data (ie., point, lines, polygons), file structure (ie. .shp, gdb, .img, .dwg, dxf ) and topology concepts . Understanding how tabular data can be used in a GIS environment and able to understand metadata and determine if that data is useable is important. Also, good cartographic knowledge that results in a nice clearly understood accurate map is a nice skill to bring into a position. When I have hired individuals with little GIS experience, much of the work involves data conversion and editing. Understanding that data conversion is tedious meticulous work is important verses the more glamorous world of GIS analysis, web mapping technology, GIS development and most glamorous of all…. GIS management.

While it would be great for a 101 newbie to have some ESRI sw hands-on knowledge, the web-based training, internal mentoring, etc. that is available make that less important than good communication skills, plays well with other, quality oriented, hard worker, etc. type of stuff

08/11/2010 9:14 AM

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Reply # 400780 on 395626

Anonymous

After teaching a non credit course at MSU-Billings (Intro to GIS) granite this class was geared for folks that had been working with the ESRI software and AUTOCAD. These folks were not formally trained in either GIS or Drafting and Design but they had a willingness to learn skills to keep them at their jobs that were changing. There were two students in the class that thought if they took the class they could jump into a GIS career. I quickly dismissed that notion and encouraged them to look at what they really wanted to do with GIS and go with programs that use GIS. Environmental studies, Geography, Public works, to name three off the top of my head.

Yes, understanding software and how that works is great. Never the less, with GIS there are many industries that use GIS. While knowing basic functions of the software from introduction course is a great start, I don’t think a person can fully understand GIS until it is applied. For example, a person can come into a civil engineering firm know all about GIS software and how it works but till that person understands the work flow and what needs to be done for that firm it is almost impossible for that person to function with just knowing the fundamentals of GIS. That is true with any industry using GIS. If we look around at GISPs’ or even folks working with GIS titles they have more skills that just knowing core principles and fundamentals. Yes, those who have core principles and fundamentals will have advantages furthermore; there is also a field/work environment learning curve. Those have to be balanced by perspective employers.

What I am saying is that folks wanting a career in GIS should also look at what they really want to do with GIS and look at course in that field that would help them be more effective in the work flow, industry standards, and communication.

08/11/2010 11:16 AM

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Reply # 400853 on 395626

Linda Vance

Just to put my earlier remarks in context, I was thinking of a two-semester intro course. We often get applicants who claim to have "a year" of GIS experience, which often turns out to be that two-course sequence with no practical experience. The knowledge I listed above is what I'd like to see --but rarely do-- for people coming out of that course. I agree that a single one-semester course can't be expected to yield much GIS knowledge.

12/31/2010 1:27 PM

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Reply # 487701 on 395626

Justin Berg

Im so glad I found this website and topic! Since it pertains to me as a GIS student. I just Moved to Bozeman with 71.50 Credits in Natural Resources Management looking to transfer into MSU's GIS or Water Resources program next year. While Attending the University of Minnesota I took the basic GIS, and GIS Applications where we explored different analysis extensions, and put them to use in "real world" problems. But like most of you have stated I still feel like I lack the knowledge expected to be seriously considered for any position requiring GIS. For that reason I continue to use ArcGIS on my personal computer even though I am not in school at the moment. My recent project has been using data from MT Clearing house to show streams with fish species affected by dewatering, and trying to relate that to land use in Gallatin County. Im sure sounds pretty basic but it helps me learn. Is there any other thoughts on how I can continue to improve my GIS knowledge while Im not in school? Also any thoughts on finding an internship/job using GIS would be appreciated as well! Thanks for your time folks. Justin Berg Berg1520@umn.edu